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| What do you call yourself? |
It's become commonplace to refer to people from the Caribbean/West Indies as Caribbeans, Caribbeaners, even Antillians, in addition to the historical label of West Indians.
More recently Afro-Caribbean and African-Caribbean have been added to the lexicon, to describe those who are of African descent.
Some argue that the people of the region had no input in coining those labels and that those terms are for the most part irrelevant and inaccurate.
A former Caribbean diplomat has gone a step further in challenging those labels, especially as the relate to Black people in the area.
In his new book Democracy by Diplomacy Lionel Hurst, a former Antigua and Barbuda Ambassador to the United Nations, argues that "though in appearance the transplanted person looks every inch an African, these modern persons have been re-engineered to behave more like the people who enslaved them."
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| Ambassador Lionel Hurst favours Afro-Saxon |
He's put forward the term "Afro-Saxon" as a more fitting description.
"The Afro-Saxon moniker", Mr Hurst asserts, "seems apropos, for it combines the two elements that constitute the new person, more so than 'West Indian'."
But University of the West Indies historian Dr Lennox Honychurch appoaches the subject with caution.
And he doubts the validity of the term Afro-Saxon.
"The Caribbean is a confluence of cultures. We had multiculturalism long before it reached Europe," he told BBC Caribbean.
Putting the argument for:
Ambassador Lionel Hurst says the term Afro-Saxon, first coined by the late Trinidad and Tobago academic Lloyd Best, is the most apt description for people of African descent in the region.
Listen to Mike Jarvis' interview with Ambassador Lionel Hurst
And against:
University of the West Indies historian Dr Lennox Honychurch is cautious about going down the relabelling route.
Listen to Dr Lennox Honychurch
Join the debate and have your say
Read Ambassador Hurst's reactions to the comments made here in the 'Local Links' on this page
My father is Afro-Guyanese and mother is Irish and I live in the UK where we are quite cut off from the Caribbean due to distance. Immigration from the Caribbean has more or less stopped. We still get nurses from Trinidad and Jamaicans who can't get into the USA but overall it is dwindling. I have so many friends of Afro-Caribbean descent who will never go to the Caribbean to see their heritage because they are not bothered or interested and because their parents don't make an effort to go back. Or simply because they have lost contact with their relatives on the islands I have 2 x brothers who have never been and never will go to Guyana. It's sad because their children will have no sense of culture or heritage. So we now have the term Black British now. This generation of Black British ppl have created their own music - Grime they also listen to more Hip Hop than Soca and cannot cook Caribbean dishes. A whole generation lost. So maybe Afro-Saxon could represent us !
Black Britons.
Monica Cummings
London, England
Like most Caribbean nationals I'm black. I do not consider myself West Indian or Afro-(whatever phrase people will like to add). It's interesting how we spend most of our time getting the "right" phrase to describe who we are and then blast people when the attempt to stereo type us. I visited the UK on vacation in August and I could not believe my ears; a black guy won Big Brother and suddenly there was a debate on a BBC radio program about whether or not he was "black enough" black people need to get a life! We're perhaps the only race that appears to be totally confused about who we are. I say confused because look at the amount of time we allocate to the issue. The children of Israel spent over 400 years enslaved in Egypt they appears to have moved on why can’t we?
Cheryl
St. George's, Grenada
Having Mr.Dessalines’ blood makes me Haitian. Since my ancestors were kidnapped from Africa, I'm an African. Haiti is located in (the Americas),hence, I'm (an) American.
Lloyd
Brooklyn, NY, USA
Ridiculous. Doesn't this man have anything better to do.
Will Simmons
Bahamas
Where has it become commonplace to call West Indians "Caribbeans" and "Caribbeaners"? Not in the Caribbean, right?
I think the label "West Indian" works fine. New, supposedly thought-out labels having "Afro" or "Anglo" anything would imply inaccurate and divisive racial and linguistic specifications of who is a West Indian. The term "West Indian" may be somewhat of a misnomer, but we've shaped its meaning, we're used to it and it works.
That being said, I kinda like "Antillian" or "Antillean" -- they're unambiguous derivations from a name for our region and they aren't specific to any language or ethnicity.
Kamal
Kingstown, St. Vincent and the Grenadines
I cannot understand this need for labels. I am "Out of Many - One": Jamaican born with ancestors of all races. I see nothing wrong with saying I am Jamaican and Caribbean. Why the need for additional labels?
Jenny H.
Winnipeg, Canada
One's identity is based on his or her knowledge of history and the level of his or her consciousness. For me I'll accept the "Afro' for my African identity and Caribbean for region of birth. Afro- Caribbean seems more appropriate to me. Not Afro-Saxon.
J.B John
Roseau, Dominica
I too agree that Anglo Saxon is ludicrous. I understand that Columbus accomplished a misnomer when he called the region the West Indies. However to challenge being called West Indian is to challenge our history and though its painful and fraught with exploitation it is whence we came and its created a vibrant beautiful people and wonderful region.
Afro Caribbean by turn does not take into consideration Chinese, Indians, Amerindians etc born in the region all sharing a common culture with influences from numerous races. So West Indian I am and so very proud of it.
Juanita Collins
London, UK
A rose called by any name, is still a rose. I am proud to be called a West Indian or Caribbean man.
Ormond V Robertson
United States
Let us get it right for a change. The term West Indian is just as bad a term as Afro-Saxon. They are all colonial names, of slavery oppression and exploitation. ‘West Indian’ has its origin in a dumb sailor named Columbus who thought he was actually in the East instead of being in the West of the globe, thus the term West Indies. We are all Caribbean natives descended of the total world peoples. Predominantly most of us are dark skinned, more of an African genus but we are a new people, a unit of people living on different Islands. We are not African, Asian or Europeans or Native Islanders (Caribs, Taino or Arrawak), except for the Central American original natives who share the Caribbean and some natives of the Northern areas of South America. We people of the islands are Caribbean and should be proud of it. No Anglo stuff for me. Yo Caribbeno St. Vincent
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Yo Caribbeno St. Vincent
C Fiddler
Los Angeles, USA
I am an African by race, Grenadian by Nationality. I am an African Grenadian. Others are European Grenadians or Indo Grenadians. We are all Grenadians by nationality, but different by race.
I am certainly not a West Indian, because when Christopher Columbus named the region West Indies he did not know where he was; he was lost. In addition to that, if I called myself a West Indian and a person who was born in India, an East Indian, I would be calling myself an Indian although I am an African by race. In this regard we both would be Indians; only one was born in the West and the other in the East.
Lennie N.
Toronto, Canada
(Disagrees with the term Anglo-Saxon)Afro-Caribbean is both a cultural and geographic term and therefore a more accurate term. West Indians are proud of their identity and the term should not be changed.
Willard Barriffe
Canton, USA
It is this kind of nonsense that academics get involved in why we cannot move on as a people. If we spend our precious time focussing on our development and creating a path towards our future we would be a much better people. What really does it matter what we are called outside of our own nationalities. Let me give two pieces of reference that may help us.(1) Whatever the colour of our skin and no matter how mixed we are, "we are fearfully and wonderfully made", the psalmist David. (2)The Apostle Paul in speaking to the Phillipians in chapter 2 says "this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind". The quicker we forget about slavery and all those things of yesterday the better off we would be. Look forward to better things.
Martin
Kingstown, St Vincent
I am proud of both my African and West Indian heritage. I consider myself Afro-West Indian.
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Kenton Chance
Taipei, Taiwan
Is it not bad enough to be insulted being called a West Indian?
- Ran London, UK said that - How on this green earth can someone be insulted by being called West Indian? Let no one define you but yourself! Good for Mister Hurst - if he believes he's Afro-Saxon - good for the chap!
What then would you call someone like myself, mixed with a bit of everything? Does it really matter?
I am human! People are way too hung up on race!
E Johnson
Toronto, Canada
(In response to Deborah: I am Dominican first, West Indian second…simple.)
This is a problematic conception of what you are. It ignores the wider context within which you operate in; a context which itself has shaped what is Dominican. Moreover, this kind of divisive attitude is one of the root causes of why we lack a West Indian identity. You may or may not know; the world really doesn't care that you are Dominican - that is if they even know where or what Dominica is. United we stand, divided we fall, remain in poverty and defined by foreign discourse with very little contribution to the debate. You will do well to recognize a certain commonality of experience which the WEST INDIANS share.
Markson
Barbados
I'd like to be called African-American since I was born in the (USA). My mother is from St. Kitts but I am still Black. I have family members who are White, Spanish, Japanese, Mexican and many other cultures. All these cultures are mixed into their heritage. Sincerely it is up to the individual person as to what they would like to be called!
Izaiya Kilpatrick
(St. Kitts and USA)
I agree that we (Caribbean People) do have the African blood in us and we should never deny it. What amazes me is how the western world influences our people, and how far they are willing to take it to label those who are who not Caucasian. One thing that people in the Caribbean are well aware of, or at least should aware of, and that is the history and the role that slavery played and continues to play. Haven’t the western world divided us enough? We do not need anyone else to remind us who we are and most importantly what we should be called! Not certainly our own Caribbean people.
Jea Worldmind
Lagonave, Haiti
I certainly resent the term Anglo-Saxon, and it is in no way a flattering term. I lived in Trinidad during the time of the Black Power uprisings and it certainly was no complement to be called an Afro-Saxon. Basically what it means is you are of African descent but you are merely enforcing the will of the Anglophone countries on the local populace. I personally am African, Spanish and Portuguese, but consider myself Afro-Caribbean.
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My children have the added mix of an Italian mother, but they still consider themselves Afro-Caribbean. In my opinion we should be called Caribenos, which is the Spanish word for Caribbean people, which is what we are regardless, of where-ever our ancestors originated; Africa, India, China, Europe and every conglomeration in between we are Caribenos/Caribbean people.
A. Johan Stewart
San Luis Obispo, USA
Mr. Hurst does have a point. In a world where poles are taken and broken down by race and gender we do have to admit that most of the persons in the “Caribbean” are of Afro and Saxon background. Caribs have mixed with black and thus are included in the Saxon part. In are different and should keep their original name for they don’t consider themselves black. I just think the whole issue is quite hilarious.
Linda
Guyana and St Maarten
I am Dominican first, West Indian second…simple.
Deborah
Strangely enough, Lloyd Best who invented the term did not mean it to be a positive as one presumes Ambassador Hurst does. In fact, had Best been alive, he probably would have referred to Hurst, and not too kindly, as an Afro-Saxon.
Ruel Johnson
Georgetown, Guyana
I am sure that many people in the Caribbean are not 100% African even though their complexion is dark. I have met people whose mother was a Carib. Some are mixed with Chinese, White, Japanese and other kinds of races. Therefore I would prefer to be called Caribbean or West Indian or simply Black. There are many people who have more than 2 races in their genes. However, to consider a dark skin person as African only could be misleading. Caribbean people are unique and special. The only problem is that of other people trying to tell us who we are and where we are from. This is very sad because as a people we should find our own identity.
Lincoln
St. Kitts and Nevis
Anglo-African. This is the correct term that should be used to describe 2nd, 3rd 4th generation African/ Caribbean descendants living within the UK.
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Jayson
London, UK
Afro-Saxon? This is not a fitting description at all to describe people of the Caribbean of African descent. As far as I am concerned we are West Indians; a mixed set of people with a dynamic culture. There is nowhere in the Caribbean where you will find an individual of pure African descent---since we are mixed due to inter-racial marriages etc. I am a West Indian Woman with five races and my skin colour is dark brown/black, how would you describe me Mr. Hurst?
Stacey
Guyana
Afro-Saxon? A contradiction in terms! For we are not Afro and we are certainly not Saxons. We are West Indians or Caribbean - derived from what we could have remembered of our African origin and what we had to learn of the Saxon culture in order to survive. Yes, we are West Indian/Caribbean - a unique cultural identity that is not the sum of its parts; this is what makes us special!
Shawn
USA
The question we must ask is; who really are we? Dr. Honychurch is right. We are a confluence of cultures. But that doesn't answer the question yet. Really who are we? To a large extent European imperialism has appropriated and exterminated many people and their cultures along with them. So we may be very culturally eclectic societies but I think that in many ways we lack meaningful identity. We have lost our history, cosmogonies, and ontological bases - or at least they have been misconfigured. We don't really know who we are, and until we reconceptualise our identities it will always become easy for the West to tell us who we are - a continuation of colonization. Any notion of an "Afro-Saxon" is in my view an attestation of that colonisation. However, I reject that term for the way in which it deterministically generalizes.
Markson
Barbados
“Afro-Saxon” - is a ludicrous term. The black majority is primarily African descendant - period. Next he'll want to be referred to as a Negro. African-Caribbean please!
Frank P
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Afro-Saxon... what next will these academics come up with? I thought the term "Afro" was redundant in this day. So now a hair style and a Northern European tribe is going to be used to describe our people. Lets stick to African Caribbean please. At least this term defines our ethno-type, cutural and physical location.
Kenny Bakie
Vieux-Fort, St.Lucia
I see his point, but NO WAY IN H..L!!!
For so many reasons, main one of which being that title allows total colonial dominance of Black identity, as if having their last names if not enough!
Nefer
USA
To disregard Caribbean is a total disrespect to the indigenous peoples of these lands before the Africans & the word Saxon means ancient people of Germany who now settled in England (Anglo Saxons); not a fitting description for Africans who where brought to the Caribbean via the slave trade.
Afreekan Southwell
St.Thomas, USVI
Is it not bad enough to be insulted being called a West Indian? As a descendant of African slaves how can these(people) call me either a West Indian or a Saxon African (Afro-Saxon)? I am not ashamed of who I am.
Ran
London, UK
