Which benchwork method would you choose for a shelf layout? - Model Railroader Magazine (2024)

NevinW

• Member since
  January 2001
• From: Nevada
• 825 posts

For a shelf layout no more than 2 feet wide, attached to the wall with no support legs,which method would you choose?

1. Conventional L girder system

2. HD shelf supports supporting blue or pink foam

3. HD shelf supports supporting laminate of 1/2 inch plywoodcovered byblue or pink foam

4. HD shelf supports supporting 3/4 inch plywood

5. HD shelf supports supporting hollow core doors.

6. Other

- Nevin

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fwright

• Member since
  November 2002
• From: Colorado
• 4,073 posts

Nevin

I prefer to suit the benchwork method (and scenry shell) to the scenery and trackwork plan rather than the other way around. If you have high a track to space ratio and/or most of the space where there is no track has structures, a flat surface is probably easier. If you have most track on various grades and levels and or rolling/mountainous scenery, some form of open grid framework is probably easier to work with.

That said, options 3 and 4 are overkill IMHO. Assuming 16" shelf support spacing to match wall studs, 1/2" plywood is not needed with a reasonable foam thickness. If you insist on a plywood/foam laminate, 1/4" plywood is adequate. Or 1/2" plywood supported on 16" centers is also perfectly adequate without any foam. Use Homasote or cork on the plywood for your roadbed.

For smooth grades and grade transitions, nothing is easier than bending 1/2" plywood. Simply cut along the outside edges of the roadbed locations with a jig saw and bend the plywood "tongue" to the desired grade. Hold the plywood in place with risers attached to the frame.

Finding 24" wide hollow core doors may not be that easy; most I have seen are quite a bit wider. In any case, I don't know that hollow core doors are any easier than 2" foam.

these are my thoughts and experiences, yours may differ

Fred W

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Don Gibson

• Member since
  June 2004
• From: Pacific Northwest
• 3,864 posts

NevinW wrote:

For a shelf layout no more than 2 feet wide, attached to the wall with no support legs,which method would you choose?

1. Conventional L girder system with legs to floor.

REASON: a shelf attacked to wall will exhibit 'springiness' - a resonance - will virbrate low frequencies. Combining legs to to floor with attachment tothe wall will tend to damp outboth horizontal and vertical vibrations (Good).

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tomikawaTT

• Member since
  February 2005
• From: Southwest US
• 12,914 posts

NevinW wrote:

For a shelf layout no more than 2 feet wide, attached to the wall with no support legs,which method would you choose? 1. Conventional L girder system 2. HD shelf supports supporting blue or pink foam 3. HD shelf supports supporting laminate of 1/2 inch plywoodcovered byblue or pink foam 4. HD shelf supports supporting 3/4 inch plywood 5. HD shelf supports supporting hollow core doors. 6. Other - Nevin

1. Gross overkill - unless (as in my case)the "shelf" is a complex sandwich of track on three levels, with the two top layers having grades running in opposite directions. (The lowest level runs right on top of the (modified) shelf brackets, between the steel stud "C used like L" girders.)

2. Possible - but you still need to secure the foam to the shelf brackets with something stronger than a thin bead of glue or caulk.

3. Better - or at least quieter, with the same proviso.

4. Overkill unless the span between shelf brackets is unusually long.

5. Hollow core doors can be used, but aren't the best choice for heavily contoured scenery.

6. My solution (in use where the layout is a <24-inch shelf along a structural wall) is to start with the HD shelving tracks and brackets, with the tracks screwed directly into the woodwallstuds with long screws (2.5"). I add a length of angle iron to the stock bracket, converting it to an "L-joist"to allow driving screws from below in the classic Westcott manner. The brackets are 16" long, the length of the angle iron on eachis a variable because the aisle edge of the shelf is neither parallel to the wall nor straight. Since my stacked layers of trackage and supportsdon't resemble your plans, I won't bore you with the details. I use a lot of steel because wood products don't react well to the conditions in my Las Vegas garage.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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orsonroy

• Member since
  March 2002
• From: Elgin, IL
• 3,677 posts

tomikawaTT wrote:

2. Possible - but you still need to secure the foam to the shelf brackets with something stronger than a thin bead of glue or caulk.

Tell that to Bill Darnaby. His 10 scale mile long, double deck layout is nothing but 2x3s suppoting 2" blue foam. The layout's been up for over ten years, and hasn'texperienced any shifting, sagging, flexing or breakage. He uses a thin bead of Liquid Nails to attach the foam to the 2x3 supports.

Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943

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orsonroy

• Member since
  March 2002
• From: Elgin, IL
• 3,677 posts

NevinW wrote:

For a shelf layout no more than 2 feet wide, attached to the wall with no support legs,which method would you choose?

6: Other. My last layout was built mostly as a 1 foot wide shelf, with U-channel L-brackets, 1/4" Lauan plywood, and 2: foam:

This type of support is amazingly strong, blazingly fast for one person to assemble, and, if buying everything new, is actually cheaper than traditional layout construction techniques (abouta buck a square foot, exclusive of track &finished scenery). The technique allowedme to build all of this layout on my own in less than a year:

I moved two years ago, and just settled on a new trackplan. My new layout will be a 25x25 double deck, around the walls layout similar to my old one (if you eliminate the lowest deck). I'll be modifying the construction slightly, by adding 1x3s between the brackets and the Lauan. This will give me a more secure attachment point for everything, and will allow me to more easily add a fascia to the layout. It'll also allow me to extend the overall width of the layout to 30" in places.

Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943

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tomikawaTT

• Member since
  February 2005
• From: Southwest US
• 12,914 posts

orsonroy wrote:

tomikawaTT wrote: 2. Possible - but you still need to secure the foam to the shelf brackets with something stronger than a thin bead of glue or caulk. Tell that to Bill Darnaby. His 10 scale mile long, double deck layout is nothing but 2x3s suppoting 2" blue foam. The layout's been up for over ten years, and hasn'texperienced any shifting, sagging, flexing or breakage. He uses a thin bead of Liquid Nails to attach the foam to the 2x3 supports.

Yup! And Bill glued his foam to a surface at least 1.5 inches wide - NOT the 1/16 inch top edge of a HD track-mounted shelf bracket.

I stand by my original statement.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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dehusman

• Member since
  September 2003
• From: Omaha, NE
• 10,603 posts

I would use a open grid construction for the benchwork.

I would attach a 1x4 or 2x4 sill to the wall where I want the grid to rest.

I would attach a 1x4 or 2x4 sill to the wall about 2 feet below the top sill.

The back of the open grid rests on the top sill. The grid is screwed to the wall. A diagonal brace runs from the bottom sill up to the open grid.

This construction will be strong enough to sit on, but light enough that you can move the pieces if you want to and has no legs on the floor.

Dave H.

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Chartiers

• Member since
  April 2007
• From: West Virginia
• 157 posts

Many good suggestions have, and will, be offered.

The construction method you choose may be greatly influencedby thequestion: "do you intend to take the layout with you when you move?"

Chartiers Branch of the PRR

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exPalaceDog

• Member since
  February 2005
• 627 posts

The Old Dog would look at some of the metal utility shelving systems offered by Sears and others. They would be free standing and hence movable. In addition, the shelves below and above the layout could be used for storage.

Have fun

• Reply

ericboone

• Member since
  January 2002
• From: Minnesota
• 659 posts

NevinW wrote:

For a shelf layout no more than 2 feet wide, attached to the wall with no support legs,which method would you choose? 1. Conventional L girder system 2. HD shelf supports supporting blue or pink foam 3. HD shelf supports supporting laminate of 1/2 inch plywoodcovered byblue or pink foam 4. HD shelf supports supporting 3/4 inch plywood 5. HD shelf supports supporting hollow core doors. 6. Other - Nevin

I'm going with #3 myself. I would skip the plywood except that it helps deaden the rumble of the train on just foam. Heavy duty shelf brackets are probably overkill. The standard brackets mentioned above will suffice.

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Anonymous

• Member since
  April 2003
• 305,205 posts

exPalaceDog wrote:

The Old Dog would look at some of the metal utility shelving systems offered by Sears and others. They would be free standing and hence movable. In addition, the shelves below and above the layout could be used for storage. Have fun

This is exactly what I did. The shelving is 2' wide and plenty strong. I just laid the blucor foam right on top of the table, The bottom shelves provide storage space for all of my railroad stuff.

Ken

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exPalaceDog

• Member since
  February 2005
• 627 posts

A couple of concerns

1) Be sure to allow for the wiring, switch machines, and so on. Drilling holes through the metal shelf might be a little hard.

2) Be sure to allow enough space below the layout to access the above

3) If you have shelves above the layout, be sure to allow adequate clearence to be able access the layout, especially the back side.

Have fun

• Reply

Covina Mike

• Member since
  March 2005
• From: Upland, CA
• 86 posts

Nevin,

For what it's worth, I'm currently building such a shelf layout along two walls of our spare bedroom. The layout is two feet wide and six and ten feet respectively. I used standard shelf brackets and standards made by Rubbermaid and available widely at Home Depot. The shelves themselves are constructed from 1x4 dimensional lumber, forming 2x4 boxes, and topped with 1/2" plywood. Over this I'm using 1/2" hom*osote sheets from California Roadbed for the yard areas and hom*osote roadbed for the remainder. Backdrops are currently being installed using 1x2 dimensional lumber, cut into 18" pieces, and glued to the standards using Liquid Nails. Wiring is easily accessible underneath and I've allowed myself plenty of room for my workbench and shelves both above and below the layout. Having built a 10' x 22' layout in my last home's garage, the construction of this layout has been immensely easier and more convenient, since its indoors, air-conditioned, and the toilet and frig aren't far away. Although I'm limited from running my California Zepher and Super Chief in all their glory, a switching layout has enormous opportunities for detail and operation. Someday, I get connected to a club and use that for my need to see long trains passing through the countryside. In the meantime, this project has enabled me to get active again and take a great deal of satisfaction from manageable projects like building my own switches and handlaying track. I hope this one railroader's experience will inspire you to jump in and begin enjoying your layout.

• Reply

Dustin

• Member since
  November 2006
• From: Victoria, BC, Canada
• 112 posts

Has anyone else noticed this?:

I plan on doing a triple-deck design that is 18" wide or less. I recently purchased some rubbermaid heavy-duty shelf brackets from HD (the kind that have two brackets welded together to prevent side to side wobble)... which was quite expensive. I then rigged up a mock-up to test deck heights. I placed an open-grid benchwork mock-up made with 1X3's onto the shelf brackets and noticed something interesting. The brackets actuallytilt upwards the further from the wall you get thus creating a front-to-back, downhill slope. I checked and my wall is level top to bottom.

I'm wondering if these things are designed that way to flex downwards and be level when really loaded up (say when using for storage in a garage). I won't use that system now for the layout because the slope is too noticable. (I'm as yet undecided what I'll do).

Has anyone else noticed this upward pitch of these shelving brackets?

Thanks,

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balearic

• Member since
  December 2003
• From: Elmira Branch
• 81 posts

Just out of curiosity, when using foam to make shelves, how are the roadbed and track attached? I doubt that spikes will hold very well, so I suspect that glue is used.

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nucat78

• Member since
  July 2005
• 535 posts

orsonroy wrote:

tomikawaTT wrote: 2. Possible - but you still need to secure the foam to the shelf brackets with something stronger than a thin bead of glue or caulk. Tell that to Bill Darnaby. His 10 scale mile long, double deck layout is nothing but 2x3s suppoting 2" blue foam. The layout's been up for over ten years, and hasn'texperienced any shifting, sagging, flexing or breakage. He uses a thin bead of Liquid Nails to attach the foam to the 2x3 supports.

Yeah, I'm using foam directly on cheap metal shelf brackets for the current layout and am not having any problems at all. N-scale, 18-inch width shelves of 2-inch foam. I have glued some 1/8 -inch hardboard under joints though.

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nucat78

• Member since
  July 2005
• 535 posts

balearic wrote:

Just out of curiosity, when using foam to make shelves, how are the roadbed and track attached? I doubt that spikes will hold very well, so I suspect that glue is used.

Yes. I use latex caulk to secure the roadbed to the foam. I use latex caulk, Liquid Nails for Projects (doesn't eat plastic or foam), Aileen's Tacky Glue or Crazy Glue (CA) to secure the track to the roadbed, depending on the application and what I have on hand.

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ereimer

• Member since
  June 2003
• From: CANADA
• 2,292 posts

while not strictly a shelf layout i am planning to use

6) other - the IKEA gorm system

http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/categories/range/10364/10898/

it's inexpensive , modular , available in several height/width combinations and provides the storage space required to meet my negotiated right of way agreement (my wife said i could have part of the basment if i built shelving to hold the stuff that's already being stored there) .

since attaching 2 pieces of wood at a 90 degree angle AND having the top come out level isn't a skill i have mastered i think a purchased shelving system is the way to go . i'll replace the top shelf with a frame holding a blue foam (or pink depending what's on sale) base and build up from there .

now all i have to do is move everything out of the basem*nt , tear out all the walls , build a floor and new walls , and i'm on my way . well before that i have to figure out how to pay for all that , then i can start !

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stocksj

• Member since
  February 2007
• 56 posts

I'm just starting my first layout and it's a workbench setting that's attached to basem*nt wall studs running a U-shaped 2x6 to 2x6 to 2x4 around in a shelf type setup. I have support legs running down to the floor for extra support.

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dgwinup

• Member since
  May 2005
• 1,168 posts

Dustin wrote:

Has anyone else noticed this?: I plan on doing a triple-deck design that is 18" wide or less. I recently purchased some rubbermaid heavy-duty shelf brackets from HD (the kind that have two brackets welded together to prevent side to side wobble)... which was quite expensive. I then rigged up a mock-up to test deck heights. I placed an open-grid benchwork mock-up made with 1X3's onto the shelf brackets and noticed something interesting. The brackets actuallytilt upwards the further from the wall you get thus creating a front-to-back, downhill slope. I checked and my wall is level top to bottom. I'm wondering if these things are designed that way to flex downwards and be level when really loaded up (say when using for storage in a garage). I won't use that system now for the layout because the slope is too noticable. (I'm as yet undecided what I'll do). Has anyone else noticed this upward pitch of these shelving brackets? Thanks,

Yes, it's been noticed and discussed in other threads or other forums.

I had considered this type of construction for my in-planning-stages layout. The best suggestion I read about was using thin strips of wood along the back of the shelf brackets to shim the layout to level. Either thick foam or plain plywood can be used for the layout surface.

Also note that the tip of the shelf bracket usually has a small point on it sticking up about the level of the bracket. This has to be taken into account if your shelf will extend beyond the end of the bracket. A small hole in the foam or plywood will allow the shelf to fit down over the point.

I decided NOT to use this method after I changed the layout from a single level to a double-deck layout. There was no way to have a constant grade at the back of the shelf because the brackets would be in the way. The lower level COULD be built with shelf brackets. The upper level would have to be some other type of construction, and I'm not sure how it would be supported. The latest plan is based on an around-the-walls nolix. I haven't decided yet if I will build withL-girders or box-frames or just 2" thick foam. I may be analyzing this to inaction! LOL

Darrell, quiet...for now

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nucat78

• Member since
  July 2005
• 535 posts

dgwinup wrote:

Dustin wrote: The brackets actuallytilt upwards the further from the wall you get thus creating a front-to-back, downhill slope. I checked and my wall is level top to bottom. Has anyone else noticed this upward pitch of these shelving brackets? The best suggestion I read about was using thin strips of wood along the back of the shelf brackets to shim the layout to level. Either thick foam or plain plywood can be used for the layout surface.

I picked up a bag of wooden shims for $1.29 at Menards to handle that. They also have fancy-schmancy composite ones for around $5.

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NevinW

• Member since
  January 2001
• From: Nevada
• 825 posts

Thanks to everyone for their comments. This is what I am thinking for now: I already have many HD shelf supports from my previous layout. It used 24" hollow core doors laminated to 2" blue foam. It was definitely overkill. Afte a couple of visits to Reno Home Depots and seeing the sorry state of most of their plywood, I am thinking about 1/4" MDF (at least it is straight and flat!) laminated to 1.5 inch pink foam. Thoughts? - Nevin

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nucat78

• Member since
  July 2005
• 535 posts

NevinW wrote:

[...]I am thinking about 1/4" MDF (at least it is straight and flat!) laminated to 1.5 inch pink foam. Thoughts? - Nevin

Why not laminate two layers of 1.5-inch foam together for 3 inches thick? I'm still a big proponent of skipping plywood, etc. If the foam is sufficient (and in my experience, it has been), why bother with wood?

Proviso: I DO use 1/8-inch hardboard under foam section joints.

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NevinW

• Member since
  January 2001
• From: Nevada
• 825 posts

I may put two 1.5" foam boards together glued to thin strips of wood where the shelf supports are to give someplace for the screws to hold and at the joints- Nevin

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Anonymous

• Member since
  April 2003
• 305,205 posts

I liberated several doors and plan to build legs for them as a base. The doors are like two inches thick, been in place 20+ years and show no warpage. They would make a fine base.

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