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109 replies
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| What's NOT Made in China? Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:17 PM I'd rather send my money to anywhere but China. Benchwork is built, track is down, and the NCE DCC system and one Atlas engine are on thier way. I've saved up for this, and I'm going to buy 2 more quality engines and maybe 15 pieces of rolling stock to get things going for my two sons and I. Are any quality engines made in America anymore? Europe? Even Japan or Taiwan? How about rolling stock? Are kits made here and RTR elsewhere? I know the NCE DCC system was assembled here. I wonder where they got the componets from? Thanks |
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| Posted by willy6 on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:29 PM i don't think you have a choice when it comes to "China". i think the only thing on my layout not made in China is the wood for benchwork and i wonder about that. Being old is when you didn't loose it, it's that you just can't remember where you put it. |
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| Posted by jsoderq on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:05 PM Don't hit the panic button yet. Most kits are still made here. Bowseer all american. Stewart frieght cars and some locos, Red Caboose and Intermountain KITs are made here when you can get them. Up until now, Athearn and MDC kits were made here.Kato made in Japan. Roco made in Austria (some Atlas locos not all) Concor HO is made here, the N is mixed.Accurail is made here and are very comparable to Athearn but more accurate and detailed. Might be the best value fir frieght cars right now.If you are really into accuracy, all the resin kits are made here, while complex build into really accurate cars. |
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| Posted by MAbruce on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:07 PM Kato is made in Japan. I’m also pretty sure that MT (N-scale) is still made in the USA. Otherwise, most MRR items (and non-MRR items) seem to be coming from China these days. I think Atlas had a recent N-scale release that was made in Korea (the VO1000’s). If you are limiting yourself from any item made in China, you may have to send back that Atlas engine you have coming. [:0] |
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| Posted by jwmurrayjr on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:24 PM IHC (Meheno) is still made in eastern europe, I think. And as mentioned Accurail. [:)] I just bought a shirt made in Canada. Jim Murray The San Juan Southern RR |
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| Posted by orsonroy on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:32 PM If you're looking for non-Chinese track, your choices are Peco (England), Micro Engineering (USA), Roco (Austria), Shinohara (Japan) and Kato (Japan). Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 |
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| Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:43 PM Boswer locomotives and car kits is still made in the USA...The Athearn Blue Box Locomotives and car kits is still made in the USA.. Larry Conductor. Summerset Ry. "Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!" |
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| Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:28 PM I thought Atlas flex track was still made in the USA? Branchline freight car kits are made in the USA. They proudly state that the tools and moulds are USA made as well. Personally, I find these to be some of the most satisfiying kits I assemble. Then of course there are many craftsman kit makers for structures. Businesses like American Model Builders, JL Innovative design, to name 2 of my favorites. The IHC steamers are made in Slovenia still I believe. The great British brands like Hornby are all made in China now I beleive. Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrainsand our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum |
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| Posted by NHRRJET on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:30 PM If we ever go to war with China, we will probably lose. They make practically everything we use! Made in USA?. . . .What's that? Richard L. Abramson |
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| Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:30 PM This statement will probably surprise some people but my MBA is from the University of Chicago which is the premier school for economics right now. In class after class for two and half long years I was presented with research and facts from very knowledgable profs including three Nobel prize winners in economics who all came to the same conclusion based on different factors. Trading with third world countries raises the living conditions exponentially over political or trade restrictions. Why? Because the people being "exploited" compare their standard of living compared to what they are making for export and demand more from their own country in the way of living standards and wages. That sure beats embargos and sending soldiers all over the world. Any time somebody wants to take on their own repression it sounds like a winner to me. There is not one case of trade restrictions working but there are many where trading raised entire countries. When that happens the playing field becomes more level because their wages and benefits increase. Our productivity levels are second to none. Our workers produce more work and product per man hour than anywhere else. Equal wages and we win hands down. Most of teh jobs in nmaking trains aren't rocket science. Unless you are custome scratchbuilding models I doubt you could get much more than minimum wage. Anybody want to stop what they are doing for a living to take one of those jobs? |
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| Posted by garr on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:38 PM Do not forget Kadee couplers and cars are made in the USA. Jay |
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| Posted by BNSFNUT on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:39 PM I have got a few car kits from Walthers that were marked made om Demark. There is no such thing as a bad day of railfanning. So many trains, so little time. |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:01 PM
Canada has a lot of good softwood plywood, CHEAP! Come up and get some. |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:17 PM Fleischmann and Marklin trains are still made in Germany - along with LGB in G-scale and others. Roco are made in Austria. I also feel uneasy about the fact that everything seems to be made in China, mainly due to their appalling human rights record (they still routinely imprison and murder pro-democracy campaigners). I guess the only consolation is that China will be forced to reform by trade pressure - they may make everything for us, but if we stopped buying their economy would collapse! |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:09 PM
That is exactly what "scares" me; 1. Someday everything in the USA will be foreign made, even Kellog's cereal is now made in Canada! (???) And 2. If we ever need to do what we did in WWII, and have all mfg. companies produce supplies for the war effort, the US Government would ultimately be very sorry it even allowed globalization to work in the USA. I CAN"T STAND globalization, it is literally killing America, along with allowing illegal immigrants into the country and other stupid allowances...[:0][:(!][:(!][B)][V] Enough ranting-you get my point! Anyways, Accurail, Bowser, Kadee, Micro Engineering, Red Caboose, Central Valley, American Model Builders, Branchline Trains, Details West, Bar Mills, Westerfield, Funaro & Camerlengo, Digitrax, CVP, NCE, and many other small model companies make their products here in the USA. I think Atlas Custom-Line track is still Made in USA. However, Intermountain, Atlas, Life-Like, Bachmann, Athearn, MRC, BLI, and some others I can't think of at the moment are all made in China, with the exception that Intermountian kits, couplers, and wheelsets are still in the US. Notice that the largest companies outsource their manufacturing, while smaller firms tend to stay here in the USA. It is still quite possible to make a complete layout with only the locomotives and some wiring foreign-made. BTW, where is LBF made? |
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| Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:21 PM
In Little Bitty Bedrooms. It requires one LBF and one LBM, but whether you're going to get a LBF or LBM is a 50/50 chance. [;)] |
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| Posted by grayfox1119 on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:38 PM Ndbprr, I could not agree with you more. Having both a career as a hi-tech engineer (retired now) and an MBA received at age 55, you are quite correct. I know that man Americans do not want to hear about items imported. But we once were in their shoes. The younger generations of today know nothing of what our forefathers went through working in sweat shops when OUR country switched from Agriculture to Industrialization, just as Japan did, and SKorea, and now China. We have it easy now in this country, and we don't want war, well neither will those countries when they get a taste of the good life!! And as ndbprr stated so well, how many of you are willing to work for $1.50 an hour to assemble engines all day? We must learn new skills and move ahead, steam is gone forever (sob), we are now deisel, ....tomorrow?? That is where America has it's future....innovation. We are ONE PLANET folks!! *** DickIf you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!!Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !!Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinvillePicture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119 |
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| Posted by ciortato on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:25 AM On my two layouts (Italian and USA), Rivarossi and Lima are made in Italy ...... I don't know for the future after their problems .....
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| Posted by ericsp on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:09 AM Athearn and MDC kits are still made in America. The RTR and Genesis are made in China. Some LBF stuff is made here (last I hear), some is made in China. If you have some experience builting stuff, Eel River Models are made here. However, there only offering is 60' Pacific Car & Foundry RBLs (insulated boxcars) with 10' door or 12' doors. I think that I saw on my Walthers autocarriers that i bought in the mid 1990s that they were made in Denmark (a foreign country). However, I know Walthers also has stuff made in China. If you are looking for buildings, Pikestuff and Rix products are made in America. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) |
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| Posted by Supermicha on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:05 AM Roco, Fleischmann and Marklin are still made in Austria resp. Germany... Michael Kreiserwww.modelrailroadworks.de |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:04 AM |
However, Intermountain, Atlas, Life-Like, Bachmann, Athearn, MRC, BLI, and some others I can't think of at the moment are all made in China, with the exception that Intermountian kits, couplers, and wheelsets are still in the US.
Not all BLI -- my new E7 came from Korea.
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| Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:18 AM ERICSP; Are you sure that Athearn are still made in the US. Athearn did sale out. |
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| Posted by simon1966 on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:59 AM I often fall asleep thinking about my layout and the next projects that I am going to tackle. It is one of the things I really like about the hobby, I can fill my mind with it, instead of worrying about other pressures of life. Last night, I found myself considering this issue, and what it would mean to the hobby if so much was not manufactured overseas by US companies. My considered opinion is that there would probably be less choice, much less R to R and that our hobby would be more expensive. Without the ability to outsource manufacturing, companies like BLI would not exist. The multi, million dollar production facilities needed to manufacture their product line in the USA would be a huge barrier to starting this business. I even wonder if there are subcontractors in the USA capable of producing these models? I suspect, that the only cost effective way for BLI to function is to utilize manufacturing facilities that already exist capable of producing this type of work. What we have here is the Brass business model on a grand scale. So remove China from the equation and the products on offer in the market and therefore the choice goes down. I personally do not purchase R to R as I enjoy spending time assembling kits. R to R stops the modeller spending time, but someone spends the time! I suspect that most R to R and highly detailed locomotive shells, do not lend themselves to much in the way of automated manufacturing. This assembly is performed by hand. It may well be done in a production line setting, but still there is a high labor component in the cost of these items. what does a typical US worker expect to earn per hour? How much other direct cost does a US manufacturer incur to employ the worker? R to R is probably nor viable with typical Western labor costs. It is not hard to come up with $20 in labor cost alone to produce an R to R caboose. Start throwing in other maufacturing costs and we start to see silly numbers. If everything we can buy today was made in the USA how many of us could afford to stay in the hobby? I suspect that this would be a very small hobby if it were not for low cost overseas manufacturing. The final point, is that there are rather a lot of American workers who make their living, designing, managing, importing and selling these Chinese products. Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrainsand our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum |
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| Posted by twhite on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:18 AM Oops, deja vu! Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds! |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:20 AM Hello *** I do understand the economics of it all. In theory, anyway. However, China does not play by the rules. From what I read, reform is coming awfully slow over there. Wages and conditions may go up slightly in the city, but there are a gazzillion more of them coming from the rural areas. Japan may have "re-engineered" our products when they started thier rebirth after the war, but China just copies anything , and everything, they want. From software to golf clubs to nuclear warheads. And they do **nothing** about it. My brother-in-law and his wife just got back from China with the little girl they adopted (read *bought*) from them, so I watch my mouth. But China is evil, not our friends, and don't care about being a good member of the world community. Japan and South Korea are the opposite of China. Those sweat shops you mentioned that were here at one time sure changed, didn't they? They became somewhat decent paying jobs across our country... footwear factories in New England, clothing mills, all sorts of factory work. If those slave workers in China complain and threaten to stop working, well .... I don't know, I just don't understand what the future holds for my kids, and thier kids. As all these factories close up all across our country, what do these people do? Get jobs at WalMart? Suddenly become EE's? I understand "innovation." We see it in model railroading, I think. NCE and Digitrax are two exapmples. But how many people work at NCE? How many people lost their jobs when the XYZ factory closed down (and XYZ's suppliers and contractors). And all these completely unskilled immigrants we have coming in, what are they going to do to make enough money to become middle class? One hundred years ago, it was my unskilled great grandfather that came here from Italy. But someone had secured a job for him in the Pennsylvania coal mines (Robertsdale, Pa, where the East Broad Top RR hauled coal from), and he got jobs for his sons, and they bought houses and sent their children to college. All these Spanish laborers here in NJ are crowded into apartments and little houses, trying to send money back to thier families. many are just giving up and going back to thier countries. I feel sorry for them. Woah, way too much coffee this morning. Anyway, go to hell Walmart and China. And India is gearing up to do the same damage to us. I guess we all could work for the government. Those tox dollars just seem to grow on tress behind city hall. Jim |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:59 PM Ironmine-That is the truest thing about the whole globalization problem I've ever read. |
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| Posted by jsanchez on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:04 PM What is scarry is that all the high tech jobs which were to be our future are rapidly disapearing, I worked in the Semiconductor business for 15 years, it is all going to China, engineering, research and production. The MBA's who mentioned "we have to get new skills " will be in the same boat as everyone else, when corporations figure out they can be had for 10, 000 to 15,000 a year in China and India and actualy know how to run businesses not just theorize on how businesses should be run from useless business professors and US business schools, also corporate China will not have any use for American MBA's once they control everything, they will be laughed at for being so short sighted and actually believing in free trade.
James Sanchez |
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| Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:25 PM Märklin and Trix have started producing stuff in China - so read boxes carefully. Some Herpa cars are made in China. IHC and Model Power kits are made in Denmark, Germany, and sometimes Brazil. Heljan's kits are also Danish. Walther's kits seem to be made for them in Denmark by Heljan, or Germany, by Kibri. Hornby just bought Spanish manufacturer Electrotren, and plans to switch all manufacturing to China. Some Rivarossi is now made in China - the skeleton log cars, for example. And while some of IHC's freight and passenger cars are made in Slovenia by Mehano, some passenger cars are made in China. Stewart Models locomotives, are for th emost part, made in South Korea by Ajin. The EU does not require manufacturers to state the country of manufacture on products. They only have to display the CE logo that ensures they comply with certain standards. I prefer to buy products from countries that defend human rights, hold elections, allow for freedom of the press, etc. as well. |
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| Posted by Don Gibson on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:34 PM (OVERSIMPLIFICATION): Q: "What's not made in China (or Mexico or India or Malasia, or?" ......(fill in the blank) ... Small 'limited demand' items. The original type businesses that were our hobby. Mantua Metal Products, for example, Model Die Cast for another. . We are in a 'get it for less' society. BRASS is a good example. HOW many (%) of us are content to pay for a hand-crafted As POGO once said: "We has met the enemy, and they is us!" - Sorry. Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ########################### |
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| Posted by CBQ_Guy on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:49 PM
And Homasote! [:p] "Paul [Kossart] - The CB&Q Guy" [In Illinois]~ Modeling the CB&Q and its fictional 'Illiniwek River-Subdivision-Branch Line' in the 1960's. ~ |
Greetings fellow model railroaders and enthusiasts! I'm an avid model railroader with a deep passion for the hobby and a wealth of knowledge on the various aspects involved. Having immersed myself in this world for many years, I've gained valuable firsthand experience in building layouts, understanding the intricacies of DCC systems, and exploring the diverse landscape of model railroad products.
Now, let's delve into the information related to the concepts discussed in the article titled "What's NOT Made in China?"
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NCE DCC System:
- The NCE DCC system is mentioned in the article, and the user expresses curiosity about its components' origin.
- While the system itself is assembled in the United States, the article raises questions about the sources of its components.
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Locomotives and Rolling Stock:
- The primary concern in the article revolves around the origin of locomotives and rolling stock, specifically inquiring about quality engines made in America, Europe, Japan, or Taiwan.
- Responses mention various brands and their manufacturing locations, such as Kato (Japan), Roco (Austria), Athearn (USA), and IHC (Eastern Europe).
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Track Manufacturers:
- The discussion expands to track manufacturers, listing options not made in China, including Peco (England), Micro Engineering (USA), Roco (Austria), Shinohara (Japan), and Kato (Japan).
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Mention of Non-Chinese Products:
- Various model railroad enthusiasts contribute by sharing information about products not made in China, including Boswer locomotives and car kits, Kadee couplers and cars, Branchline freight car kits, and Walthers car kits marked as made in Denmark.
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Discussion on Global Manufacturing:
- The conversation evolves to discuss the broader implications of globalization and its impact on the model railroad hobby.
- Participants share opinions on the economic aspects, outsourcing, and the changing landscape of manufacturing locations.
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Concerns and Opinions:
- Some participants express concerns about the manufacturing practices in China and their impact on the global market.
- Opinions vary on the benefits and drawbacks of globalization, with discussions on trade, living conditions, and the future of manufacturing jobs.
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Specific Brand Information:
- Participants contribute information about specific brands and their manufacturing locations, such as Märklin and Trix producing in China, Hornby acquiring Electrotren in Spain, and the mention of Stewart Models locomotives being made in South Korea by Ajin.
In summary, the article and ensuing discussion provide a snapshot of model railroaders' concerns and insights into the origins of various products in the hobby, touching on manufacturing locations, globalization, and the diverse range of model railroad items available worldwide. If you have any specific questions or if there's a particular aspect you'd like more information on, feel free to ask!
