Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
I'm pondering early retirement in the near future, and there's a possibility we might need to use ACA for health insurance. We would run very near the subsidy cliff.
For example, for this years rates, total out of pocket max would be around $6k with subsidies, but over $30k if we went $1 over the cliff.
So I was wondering if a capital loss from a stock sale could be used to bring us back under the limit if we were getting too close at the end of the year.
I've got one individual stock with about $5k of loss, and I thought it might make sense to keep that on hand a bit longer as a sort of "cliff insurance".
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
It would offset any capital gains up to $5k and up to $3k of regular income if there was any leftover. That would reduce your MAGI depending on your sources of income and likely help you qualify for ACA subsidies.
But that loss might turn into a gain (or at least less of a loss) too so I'm not sure you can really bank it. You might consider an HSA compatible ACA plan as another way to reduce your MAGI.
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
MP123 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 pmIt would offset any capital gains up to $5k and up to $3k of regular income if there was any leftover. That would reduce your MAGI depending on your sources of income and likely help you qualify for ACA subsidies.
See AlsoHow to Deduct Stock Losses From Your Tax BillCan I take losses on my stocks and use the standard deduction?Since a lower income results in a larger subsidy, is there anything I can do to reduce my income under ACA rules? | healthinsurance.orgModified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) - GlossaryBut that loss might turn into a gain (or at least less of a loss) too so I'm not sure you can really bank it. You might consider an HSA compatible ACA plan as another way to reduce your MAGI.
Ahhhm OK, the old $3k of regular income limit applies here as well. Makes senses, i guess.
Thanks!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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- curmudgeon
- Posts: 2457
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
Postby curmudgeon »
As others noted, it can offset other cap gains, and up to $3K of ordinary income.
Other reductions: HSA (if the insurance is eligible) $6750+$1000+$1000 if over 55, spouse has to have a separate HSA account to get the last $1000 deduction. IRA/spousal IRA up to $13K or earned income total - you may not have been previously eligible for deductible IRAs, but they work in a low income year.
Gotchas to watch out for: Muni bond interest gets added back in. Taxable state income tax refunds get added to AGI, while taxes paid are down in deductions and don't help for ACA limits - it pays to figure your state withholding closely the year before retirement.
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
curmudgeon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:24 pm Gotchas to watch out for: Muni bond interest gets added back in. Taxable state income tax refunds get added to AGI, while taxes paid are down in deductions and don't help for ACA limits - it pays to figure your state withholding closely the year before retirement.
Yes, and both the taxable and nontaxable portions of Social Security get added in too if you've claimed early before Medicare eligibility.
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- dodecahedron
- Posts: 6442
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
Postby dodecahedron »
curmudgeon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:24 pm Taxable state income tax refunds get added to AGI, while taxes paid are down in deductions and don't help for ACA limits - it pays to figure your state withholding closely the year before retirement.
A good workaround if this happens: you can opt to deduct your state & local sales taxes on the prior year return instead of deducting your state and local income tax. In that case your state/local refund will not be part of your AGI/MAGI in the following year. (If necessary, you can amend the prior year return to claim sales tax instead of income tax on Schedule A.)
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- wrongfunds
- Posts: 3187
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
Postby wrongfunds »
Can crypto currency losses be deducted? Obviously, one will have no 1099 form to document it.
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
wrongfunds wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:10 pmCan crypto currency losses be deducted? Obviously, one will have no 1099 form to document it.
What? I've been told that crypto currencies only gain, gain, gain!
But seriously, I don't think they can be deducted. I think they are treated as collectibles, and I'm pretty sure losses from them can't be deducted in any case.
But I haven't looked into that for a few years.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
MP123 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 pmIt would offset any capital gains up to $5k and up to $3k of regular income if there was any leftover. That would reduce your MAGI depending on your sources of income and likely help you qualify for ACA subsidies.
But that loss might turn into a gain (or at least less of a loss) too so I'm not sure you can really bank it. You might consider an HSA compatible ACA plan as another way to reduce your MAGI.
The part in bold is false. There is no limit to offsetting losses against gains. See this:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/ ... t-a-glance
Limit on the Deduction and Carryover of Losses
If your capital losses exceed your capital gains, the amount of the excess loss that you can claim on line 13 of Form 1040 to lower your income is the lesser of $3,000, ($1,500 if married filing separately) or your total net loss shown on line 16 of the Form 1040, Schedule D.pdf. If your net capital loss is more than this limit, you can carry the loss forward to later years. You may use the Capital Loss Carryover Worksheet found in Publication 550, Investment Income and Expenses, or in the Form 1040, Schedule D Instructions, to figure the amount you can carry forward.
I personally engaged in TGH yesterday in order to prepare to further engage in TLH as the opportunity arises.
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
bhsince87 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:52 pm
wrongfunds wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:10 pmCan crypto currency losses be deducted? Obviously, one will have no 1099 form to document it.
What? I've been told that crypto currencies only gain, gain, gain!
But seriously, I don't think they can be deducted. I think they are treated as collectibles, and I'm pretty sure losses from them can't be deducted in any case.
But I haven't looked into that for a few years.
I disagree on two points:
1. Collectible losses are indeed deductible, except in cases of personal use, e.g., a painting hanging in your home.
2. Cryptocurrencies aren't collectibles anyway. Unless you're in a crypto-related business such as mining, they're treated as capital assets just like stocks: IRS Virtual Currency Guidance
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
xenial wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:24 pm
bhsince87 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:52 pm
wrongfunds wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:10 pmCan crypto currency losses be deducted? Obviously, one will have no 1099 form to document it.
What? I've been told that crypto currencies only gain, gain, gain!
But seriously, I don't think they can be deducted. I think they are treated as collectibles, and I'm pretty sure losses from them can't be deducted in any case.
But I haven't looked into that for a few years.
I disagree on two points:
1. Collectible losses are indeed deductible, except in cases of personal use, e.g., a painting hanging in your home.
2. Cryptocurrencies aren't collectibles anyway. Unless you're in a crypto-related business such as mining, they're treated as capital assets just like stocks: IRS Virtual Currency Guidance
I must admit you may be right. It's been a few years since I've read up on cryptos. I have no doubt the legal environment is changing rapidly.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
2015 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:18 pm
MP123 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 pmIt would offset any capital gains up to $5k and up to $3k of regular income if there was any leftover. That would reduce your MAGI depending on your sources of income and likely help you qualify for ACA subsidies.
But that loss might turn into a gain (or at least less of a loss) too so I'm not sure you can really bank it. You might consider an HSA compatible ACA plan as another way to reduce your MAGI.
The part in bold is false. There is no limit to offsetting losses against gains. See this:
Yes agreed, but his hypothetical loss was $5k.
Cheers.
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- laidback_and_relaxed
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:16 pm
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
Resurrecting this older thread.
I have over $75K of capital loss carry forward dating back to my stock losses taken in 2000. The annual $3K credit was nice. I retired last year, my wife a few years ago, now 60. I'm 65, on Medicare, and planning on after tax brokerage account withdrawals to fund my next 3 to 4 years that should stay unreported on my 2019 - 2021 returns with carry forward loss. I'm also counting on a nice credit for her health insurance since we'll only be reporting Social Security Income, which should be less than the max.
I'm assuming the MAGI ACA calculation isn't capturing the capital gain gross of the carry forward. Make sense?
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Re: Do capital losses count against ACA MAGI?
laidback_and_relaxed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:37 pm
I'm assuming the MAGI ACA calculation isn't capturing the capital gain gross of the carry forward. Make sense?
That's correct.
ACA looks at MAGI from your 1040 with any municipal bond income added back in. Capital loss carry forward, suspended losses, and similar don't factor in (except to the extent that they reduce your current year taxes of course).
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