I can't imagine less hours anywhere else.
65 hours is good... Even in non banking finance roles you can put that in a lot of the time.
What are some other banks with with good hours? I've heard Centerview, Baird were known for decent hours as well?
Yeah that really is not bad at all. I cannot imagine it going much lower for IB at an analyst level
It is entirely group dependent. My bank, for example, has certain groups that work 90 hours every week and others that work 60. It just depends on how hot the industry or product that your group covers is.
That being said, 65 to 70 is very good compared to other banks, especially if you are making street. All professional services - law, medicine, finance - will required some level of commitment over the standard 40 hours.
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- Mephistopheles
- PE
- Rank: Senior Neanderthal
- 5,098
7y
Mephistopheles, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Doesn't get better than that unless you are getting crap for experience at a dead shop.
60-65 hrs is probably the best available. Comparatively, anyone trying to start a career in any industry will be working around the same amount. If you move to a smaller boutique you may get better hours in between deals - but you will have much less in terms of resources to lean on and possibly lower overall comp.
Agree with this. Not sure where you could possibly beat 60 - 65
6-6 lifestyle
Disclaimer for the Kids: Any forward-looking statements are solely for informational purposes and cannot be taken as investment advice. Consult your moms before deciding where to invest.
Banking analysts complain about 100 hour weeks but that rarely happens in reality. Your hours are common among NYC bulge brackets. Pick any 4 random NYC bulge bracket groups and 2 will probably have comparable hours.
I had this discussion with a friend the other day. We agreed that if you're a certain kind of guy, you'll always work 60-70 hours per week. Doesn't matter what you do: banking, consulting, HF/PE/VC, own firm, management in some firm, corp. dev., moving to your parents' business, whatever. If you go for the supercompetitive jobs, 60-70 actually marks a lower boundary for the hours you'll work.
Yes, I have read about the 4-hour work week also, but if you think about it, the implied "spending the other 66 hours per week by the pool" may not really be appealing for a longer period. Actually, a lot of the more senior people I work with now are financially independent, but still work hard, for reasons other than compensation.
I think 60-70 is sustainable for the long haul. That may not be in line with western mainstream views currently, but who cares.
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To be fair, you can't exactly apply the 4 hour work week to investment banking. A lot of that is predicated on using virtual assistants and if you send everything to India (banking's version of VAs) you'll quickly find yourself also looking for contractual work
I've pulled 60 hours some weeks, 90 others. Just depends on deal flow and group culture. You have it pretty good, but if you wanted to move to a bigger shop you could certainly find a group that won't work you to death (I definitely know of places where no one works less than 80)
KeyBanc and Wells Fargo Securities I hear are pretty good for hours
- 1
eggplantpower:
The hours have gotten better as I am getting faster at my job, but I still pull 65-70 hours a week on average (get in at 930am leave at 9PM M-F, and a few hours on either Sat. or Sun).
So that isn't "65-70 hours a week," You're staying for 11.5 hours on the weekdays, but unless you count the time you spend bullsh*tting, taking a sh*t and eating, you're probably doing around 10 hours of actual work (optimistic). So a few hours on EITHER Saturday OR Sunday means you're working maybe 55 hours a week. That's inline with any real job in finance. Not sure how much lower you expect to go.
“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
- 3
- 1
$115k all in comp for first years this year, which is definitely below street. Can't really complain because the hours are substantially better
The issue isn't really the average hours - the issue is 1) the ratio of hours spent / hours actually needed (ie facetime) 2) the predictability of the hours 3) the lumpiness of the hours
Being in the office for 65 hours when there's no deal flow feels almost as bad as working 90 'necessary' hours, in my personal opinion.
Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- 3
So Baird and Lincoln have decent hours? Did we miss any other shops?
Aside from very busy periods where many deals are running almost parallel in the sales process, I typically work 9-7 (lunch hour not included). My team will likely end up closing 10-15 deals this year, and I will have significant touches (e.g., creating entire CIMs) on approximately 1/3 of them; will likely have slightly less significant touches on another 1/3.
Hours worked doesn't necessarily mean much after a certain point. Most success in closing deals comes down to maximizing efficiency and team cohesiveness, two elements which are unfortunately lost upon many banks, it seems.
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Related Topic
banks with less working hours? (Originally Posted: 01/29/2013)
hey guys, i'm kind of at the stage of deciding my dream and the working hour of IB comes to me as the hardest obstacle to me (well it might be same to others but) and i'm wondering if there's kind of banks with less salary but with less working hours and better working conditions. I thought the European banks would be the answer but found out to be wrong. I'll really appreciate if you help.
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You should look at S&T and ER, both have less hours, but same money at the junior level.
also interested.
I know some MM banks and boutiques are better. as well as places like DB Jax and a few non-NYC BB offices (maybe midwest?)
triplectz:
Well at this point, probably UBS.
haha. This. Deal flow is what will drive hours. Go to a shop with really poor deal flow (although pitching still takes time) or look at something other than IB.
Won Jun:
hey guys, i'm kind of at the stage of deciding my dream and the working hour of IB comes to me as the hardest obstacle to me (well it might be same to others but) and i'm wondering if there's kind of banks with less salary but with less working hours and better working conditions. I thought the European banks would be the answer but found out to be wrong. I'll really appreciate if you help.
Check out the CorpFin groups at Accounting firms (Big 4 and other large CPA/Consulting groups). There is a thread on it if you want more detail, but you will make less (still decent) and work less (50-65 hrs/wk). Many required previous IB experience though.
thx for u guys answering me
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- WallStreetPlayboys
- O
- Rank: Senior Neanderthal
- 4,989
5y
WallStreetPlayboys, what's your opinion? Comment below:
You don't want to join an investment banking job with low extremely low hours. That's means no deals which means no résumé which means less exits.
IB is about 75-80 hoursER is about 60 hours S&T is about 55 hours
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- above_and_beyond
- PE
- Rank: Neanderthal
- 3,405
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above_and_beyond, what's your opinion? Comment below:
WallStreetPlayboys:
You don't want to join an investment banking job with low extremely low hours. That's means no deals which means no résumé which means less exits.IB is about 75-80 hours
You wish..
^Hahahahah you don't know what you're talking about at all.
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- WallStreetPlayboys
- O
- Rank: Senior Neanderthal
- 4,989
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WallStreetPlayboys, what's your opinion? Comment below:
@ Snapple - I assume you mean "exceptions to the rules" the comment above was general.
Exceptions to the rules are as follows.
Exceptions - lean toward IB1. Crappy economy so you're still grinding doing useless work never winning any deals (recession periods)2. Your group is a natural sweat shop (you got screwed)3. You're bad with politics and are unable to play the "office games" and find ways to lower your working hours.
Exceptions - lean towards ER1. If you work for a psycho analyst or your group/office tends to be insane2. You cover an insane amount of stocks
Sales and Trading - ???????????1. You really got royally screwed times 10 billion. Have no idea how you're going to be clearing 80+ hours when the job is primarily market hours and there is really no weekend work
Hope that clears things up.
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Try DCM/ECM at the BBs. For corp. fin. roles, look at the regional players like SunTrust, PNC, and WF (although they're getting more serious recently) that will have a better work/life balance.
mountainvalley:
Try DCM/ECM at the BBs
Wrong
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- WallStreetPlayboys
- O
- Rank: Senior Neanderthal
- 4,989
5y
WallStreetPlayboys, what's your opinion? Comment below:
ECM/DCM = general same hours above poster is correct.
ER/IB pay change is "it depends" generally IB will pay more. If you work for a top analyst in ER you get paid well and taken care of.
Arguing about who "always" gets paid more is a big waste of time though. Glad newfirstyear is getting paid more.
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- WallStreetPlayboys
- O
- Rank: Senior Neanderthal
- 4,989
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WallStreetPlayboys, what's your opinion? Comment below:
^^ Cleared this comment up above.
- Working for sweat shop
- Your group has next to no deal flow and you're getting murdered on many pitches, trying to stay afloat
- You're in M&A and getting crushed all the time
People who say they "average" 100+hours a week are generally straight up lying. If you're getting reamed like that in IB as a 2nd year (1st years always get killed because they are slow regarding all the excel, ppt and word stuff) might be smart to switch banks unless you're getting serious deal experience.
Eg. 80 hours a week and a few deals when you leave is fineHowever, would trade for 100 hours a week if all your deals were mega dealsWould not do 100 hours a week for 2 years at any firm if it was 100% pitching
There are certainly weeks you work 120 hours but again, if you average it across maybe that should be edited to 75-85.
Finally 75-85 includes ALL banks, if we're simply talking about only hard core banks sure the average is going to be higher, but we're just getting into a pissing match at that point which i doubt either of us want to do.
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Related Topic
Less Hours Banks (Originally Posted: 05/14/2010)
I was wondering if there were any IBs (boutique/MM whatever) where the work hours aren't 100 hr weeks (like maybe 80 hrs), and that are also easier to get into.
I don't really care about presitge/comp (it is IB...)
If they exist, I would imagine they would be located in the South. Couldn't name any off the top of my head though
I'm also open to other positions (than IB analyst) but it has to be similar work (i.e. i don't want s&t)
The middle east - in Ramadan you'll work 9-1.
Consulting may be a good idea then, the hours are less.
There's also Money or asset management.
All decent paying jobs, but with less hours than IB or even S&T
Risk management is another option - the work in credit RM is similar to that in IB, though you won't get the same depth of experience.
Go look at local boutiques. Granted that you won't be paying 100+, but you will be working 70-80 tops.
eric1025:
Go look at local boutiques. Granted that you won't be paying 100+, but you will be working 70-80 tops.
Is this really true? Most local boutiques only work 70-80?Can someone confirm?
Any French firm
so next question... how do we get recruited by them? Looking for more than the few small boutiques that do that on campuscold calling only solution?
Heard BMO has good hours and for some reason pays above street.
it seems you are more desperate for the lack of hours rather than the I-Bank job itself. Focus on whats important :)
Look at regional middle market banks. You might have to put in the occasional long week, but in general the hours will be better.
Jorgan Moseph
Lazard NYC office IBD
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- Affirmative_Action_Walrus
- IB
- Rank: Neanderthal
- 2,940
5y
Affirmative_Action_Walrus, what's your opinion? Comment below:
why don't we just rename this thread "investment banks in Italy and Spain"
What is investment banking if you can't work long hours and make tons of money?
Related Topic
Do hours really vary across different firms? (Originally Posted: 01/24/2016)
Firms like Lazard and Moelis along with several BBs are known for long working hours. Do hours really differ? It's hard to meet someone who has experience with two or more firms. I think that anyone can expect to work for 90+ hours in investment banking. But do firms like Lazard or Moelis regularly demand 110+ hours? I currently have a couple of offers to consider. Although I am ready for long hours, I am very curious.
- 1
Yes. Every firm's hours vary depending on group, too. There's info in other threads here about UBS LA, GS & MS TMT, and some other allegedly notorious ultra hard working groups.
Not only can hours between firms vary, but hours between groups within the same firm can be night and day.
...........
Definitely true. It's crazy how much group culture can vary w/in the same firm at the same office.
Satellite office, and downtime (August) slowest possible is still probably 55 hours...on a standalone basis. Average I would say is still min. 60, circa 65
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Related Topic
Which bank is the softest (Originally Posted: 06/03/2016)
I am looking to join a top investment bank as a 1st year associate. I want to get the best brand name on my resume, have the best experience to provide me with exit opps, and receive positive feedback day to day (I am sensitive), but I do not want to work the latest hours. So my question: which bank has been dubbed as the softest on the street?
Most Helpful
Moelis LA or Lazard HC NYC
lol you dick
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Lol, a bschool friend of mine went to HSBC post MBA for exactly this reason and so far, it's been very good for him. Slight discount on pay, but world of difference with regards to hours and culture.
slight discount? glassdoor has HSBC associates making 160k all in. Throw in instability of the firm too...
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- Attack_Chihuahua
- PE
- Rank: Almost Human
- 7,930
4y
Attack_Chihuahua, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Troll post. Look at his header.
To OP: Do a better job trolling. If you're making fun of someone it's more effective if you provide enough information that we can figure out who/what you're making fun of.
- 1
You can't trust what's on glassdoor anyway. buddy is in London and the glassdoor total comp range for associate is £35K - £125K.... Of course HSBC doesn't pay as well as some of the BBs, but the difference isn't that big (at least at the associate level) and my buddy consistently works 50-55 hours a week vs. 90+ for my other bschool classmates that ended up at BBs / EBs. I am in no way advocating going to work with HSBC or any other global balance sheet banks (at the end of the day, you pretty much only get mandates because you are a lenders so it's not the most exciting work environment), but just pointing out that it's a great place lifestyle place if that's what you are into.
Bear Sterns, Lehman Brothers, Merryl Lynch, L.F. Rothschild, Salomon Brothers, etc
Commercial Real Estate Developer
CRE:
Merryl Lynch
Take a lap
The trolling that happens on WSO isn't even funny anymore.
Unfortunately there's only one word to describe you and I'm gonna spell it out for you. S-A-W-F-T
SoftBank
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- wholetthedogsouts
- O
- Rank: Senior Orangutan
- 428
4y
wholetthedogsouts, what's your opinion? Comment below:
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Funniest
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- HugeMiddleMarketBanker
- IB
- Rank: Senior Gorilla
- 888
4y
HugeMiddleMarketBanker, what's your opinion? Comment below:
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